Join Up Dots Business Coaching Podcast

Todays guest coming onto the show brings over two decades of branding and digital marketing experience with her everywhere she goes She is the author of the book What's Working Now? YOU-centric Marketing, and also the founder of  Think Media. She has been featured in Yahoo Finance, The Ecommerce Times, The New Food Economy, and Brand Experience Magazine, just to name a few, as a branding expert. She has personally worked with brands such as Kellogg's, Visa, Marriott, and Apple so she knows what goes into advancing a great brand. She’s overseen multimedia divisions ranging from a few million to over $300 million in revenue. Now when she isnt spending time in her Denver home, with her husband, two kids and dog, she leads a team of talented digital marketing experts. From strategy, to creation and production, to execution, they know what it takes to deliver the performance and customer experience outcomes that your brand desires. As she says "Work doesn’t feel like work when you’re passionate about helping customers grow. We want to help your business succeed. We want your customers to think about your brand first when making purchasing decisions." And this focus can help with low brand awareness, a huge problem if you are in a pool of huge competition, or reaching new customers. To stimulating those comments, re-shares and customer engagement on Social media. So why do we see time and time again, companies and individuals fall into the trap of being boring with their branding, instead of insightful and uniqiue? And what are the things that any newbie can pay attention to when trying to get their branding right? Well lets find out as we start joining up dots with the one and only Shahla Hebets Show Highlights During the show we discussed such weighty subjects with Shahla Hebets such as: We share how every entrepreneur struggles at the beginning and fall into a miserable world of "where did i go wrong?" but this is perfectly ok.. Why great branding is sharing a vision that insights and inspires the customer to see themselves in a different way Shahla discusses the myth of the overnight success and why the world is more and more looking for the lazy way to success. And lastly...... We talk openly about the "scare" factor of putting yourself out there, but its the key to getting the success that you want. How To Connect With Shahla Hebets  Website Twitter Facebook Linkedin Return To The Top Of Shahla Hebets  If you enjoyed this episode with Shahla Hebets, why not check out other inspirational chat with Clayton Morris, Dorie Clark, and the amazing Niall Doherty You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy Audio Transcription Of Shahla Hebets Interview David Ralph 0:01 Once upon a time there was a guy with a dream a dream. He's Jobs for himself online and have a kick ass life working when he wanted him where he wanted across the world. Little did he know that dream would lead him into a world of struggle, burnout and debt. Until he found the magic ingredient and knows drunk was became a thing of the past, of course, was bad person. And now My dream is to make things happen. BU Welcome to Join Up Dots. Intro 0:31 When we're young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here's your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph. David Ralph 0:56 Yes, hello there. Good morning, everybody. Good morning. And welcome. Welcome to Join Up Dots. Yes, the podcast that is rolling into its sixth year, rolling out to about 2000 episodes. And still people come along and say I just stumbled across here. So if you have just stumbled across this, thank you so much for being here. And of course, thank you so much to today's guest who has rolled out of bed at six o'clock in the morning. She's probably looking out at darkened windows and thinking what the hell am I doing? Well, we're going to find out what she's doing because she is a guest coming onto the show with over two decades of branding and digital marketing experience. And she takes that with her everywhere she goes She's the author of the book what's working now you centric marketing and also the founder of think media. She's been featured in Yahoo Finance, e commerce times, but new food economy and brand experience magazine just to name a few as a branding expert, of course. Now, if that's not good enough, that's quite sexy on it is she's personally worked with brands such as Kellogg's, Visa, Marissa and apple. So she knows what goes into advancing a great brand. So it's not just creating one is actually pushing one on to bigger and bigger results. She's overseen multimedia divisions ranging from a few million to over 300 million in revenue. And now when she isn't spending her time in a Denver home being dragged out of bed by an excitable podcaster from the United Kingdom, that's me, that's me. Spending time with her husband, two kids and adults. She leads a team of talented digital marketing experts from strategy to creation and production to execution. They know what it takes to deliver the performance and customer experience outcomes. But a great brand desires as she says, work doesn't feel like work when you're passionate about helping customers grow. We want to help your business succeed. We want your customers to think about your brand first when making purchases decisions. And this focus can help with low brand awareness a huge problem if you're in a pulled up huge competition or reaching new customers. Just stimulating those comments and those we shares and customer engagement on social media. So why do we see time and time again, companies and individuals bought into the trap of being boring with their branding, instead of insightful, unique and helpful? And what are the things that any newbie can pay attention to when trying to get a branding? Right? Well, let's find out as we start Join Up Dots with the one and only Charlotte habit. Good morning, Shahla, how are you? Shahla Hebets 3:29 Good morning. I am wonderful. How are you? David Ralph 3:32 I'm always wonderful I am. I reflected on that the other day. And as I talk a lot on Join Up Dots. I know, hey, it's my show. So I talk about myself a lot. But when you start anything, you go into it with all the enthusiasm in the world, but it's going to be easy and we've been about six weeks, you're gonna have the dream life. And for more of us, it becomes a bit of a nightmare until it becomes really good. And now I'm in a really good phase where I'm clinging to the miserable Stage, I want to remember that because I don't want to get so far away from it. But my advice to my listeners becomes inaccurate because I can't quite remember. Do you remember the dark days? Charlotte? Do you look back on it and think when THiNK Media wasn't thinking at all, it was just something that was occurring? Steve Jobs 4:20 Oh, absolutely right. We've all had that pain of growth. And the struggles that come with it. David Ralph 4:28 You can give us a bit more than that. Charlotte is a podcast. It's a podcast. That's what we do. We I asked a question, and then you answer, and then I asked extra questions because I'm interested about your answer. Steve Jobs 4:39 Okay, perfect. Yeah, you know, I mean, to elaborate. I mean, I think it's exactly what you said, right? You start out with these aspirations, these visions of how you're going to go out, you're going to change the world and you're going to, you know, really connect with companies and they're going to understand everything that you're saying and then, you know, you get in there and you're having a couple And you realise, oh my gosh, you know what I said? Just one, you know, didn't connect with them at all, and they don't get it and, and is anybody going to get it? And how will I modify this such that, you know, it makes sense and, and I've certainly experienced that, you know, many, many times, not only in the beginning of starting my business, but you know, even today I have those conversations where I get off the phone and I think what just happened? You know, but it's, it's more about, you know, I think finding the right audience and realising that your message isn't necessarily going to connect with everybody. But when it does, that's when you really can move your business forward and their business David Ralph 5:43 is interested enough. Hey, that was a great answer. And I don't I don't want that sarcasm afterwards. Show that you see. This relationships going bad already. I don't know what's happening here. Now one of the things that I realised early in the day was bad, a lot of my marketing that I was doing and my conversations that I was having with people, even though I knew the stuff inside out, was falling flat, and I couldn't understand it. And people were like listening. And over again, that's wonderful. Thank you so much for that information. And then I realised, but actually, I wasn't painting a vision of where they will be because of what I know in my head and what I can share. I was very much giving them the technical aspects, I was teaching them how to drive a car, but not saying because of this information, you're going to be whizzing over that mountain, you're gonna have sexy people all around you, you're going to have the wind in your hair, is that we're sort of branding falls down because I look at some people's websites. And to be honest, it's just boring. I look at it and I think it's just about them. And it's not about the customer and it's not about the promise of what the customer is going to get by working with you. It doesn't excite me at all. Steve Jobs 7:00 Exactly, I think that's exactly what it is, you know, it's so funny, we, I always refer to that as sort of brand speak, you know, a corporate speak, it's, you know, we have a tendency, and I understand it. But we have a tendency to sort of fall in love with our company, you know, and sort of say, Oh, it's so obvious, right? so obvious that what we do is going to change your life is going to change your world. So I'm just going to use a lot of, you know, jargon and a lot of, you know, terms that I think, you know, resonate with me my brand and all our benefits and everything that we bring to the table. And the truth is, that's just noise. And it is boring. And it isn't something that incites anything outside of let me move on. And I think sometimes we just fall in love with the brand and we we do that with the right intention, right? Of course you fall in love with your brand and your brand. But what we tend to find is that the customers thinking about themselves, know the customer is thinking about why does this matter to me How's it going to move me forward? What educational value do I have? Does it motivate me? Does it inspire me? And that's why I think so many brands fall into this trap of, you know, me, me, me, me, me and the customers and I wanted actually to be about, about what's happening in my life. Yeah, yeah. How I can grow. David Ralph 8:19 And is that something that comes across on because I tell you, once again, I'm going to talk about myself, but my business really took off really took off when I had burnout. And when I had corporate burnout, and I really struggled and about giving everything up. It sounds like you're making a coffee. Are you making this? Is that the first morning coffee? I can hear clinking away? Unknown Speaker 8:43 Yeah, it is. I'm sorry. That's good. That's good. David Ralph 8:47 We like we like to feel like we're in your life. And I imagine you sitting there in a nightie now I'm not gonna go that far. But anyway, so so you're drinking your coffee and most people out there when they are looking at bear that sort of branding right at the very start, they failed to actually get that insight into the person's life. And so when I get that corporate brand brand burnout, I realised but from that point on, I had to share more about that and I had to share but I found a better way of operating because of that. I had to go through that. Now. You sitting there with your cup of coffee and your you know, and your pyjamas, my pyjamas, that's better. And the fact that you can connect with customers all around the world. Fat is great branding material, isn't it? But there's people out there thinking that's what I want. I want to be drinking coffee. I want to be talking to that sexy guy. And I want to be in my pyjamas at six o'clock. No, maybe not six o'clock in the morning. But everything else sounds great. Why do people not throw that out? Why do we not show behind the curtain? Steve Jobs 9:53 You know, I think it's vulnerability maybe you know, it's it's I don't want to come out and show you sort of the reality of my life. And, you know, the all of the things that I have gone through and, and my storey, right. It's really my storey when it's all said and done, it's also the brand storey and, and I think sometimes people say like, Oh, you know that that part isn't important. That part isn't sexy at that part makes me look like I, you know, I didn't wake up out of bed and become instantly successful. I don't want to talk about that. And and the truth is, is that what works with branding is the emotional connection. And so if I can connect with somebody over my cup of coffee and my jams, you know, then, and I can tell them really this is, this is the reality of who I am. This is my storey, you're going to find people who are going to say that's my storey. That's my storey, too. And that actually breaks through the noise more than anything is that sort of heart centric, you know, we've all been there. Let's do this. Let's let me share the growth that I've had so that you can have the same experience or at least you can perhaps get a bit of inspiration out of it. David Ralph 11:00 is I have had an epiphany recently, but it's one of those epiphanies that I'd realised all the way through my life, but it suddenly struck home that the world is full of lazy people. And they basically want the maximum results with the minimum effort. Unknown Speaker 11:19 And David Ralph 11:20 I've been speaking to people time and time again and I've been saying to them yeah, I will work with you, they come through to me and we have this discussion and I, you know, we we talk about things and even though that I can show them exactly how to create, you know, in a microsite, a multiple six figure business, its work involved in it now Vax the stumbling block master bit when they go, there's work involved in it. Oh, I thought I could just click a few buttons and stuff. And so through there, I've been delving deeper and deeper and deeper to try to find a business that I can share with people, but they can literally do whatever they want in the world. Whenever they want to do it. I don't need a lot of investment. And I've got one, I've got one, but I'm playing around with at the moment, and it is sexy times. It's sexy time. But I know still that when I promote it and market it to people, people still want easier that they want easier. Now, that's wrong, isn't it? I'm I thinking that life is about work and is not about play, or is it more about play and not work? What do you think? Steve Jobs 12:29 I mean, everything requires work, you know, everything requires adjustment. I mean, businesses is no different than life. Right? If I find that amazing because I think you're, you know, you're spot on in terms of, there's this notion that and maybe it's social media, social media, but you know, maybe it's this notion that oh, you know, you you just arrive and everything just is easy and everybody knows your your storey and everybody knows what you're trying to do, and then they get it and you just want around this, you know, sort of perpetual bliss. And, and the truth is, is that, you know, there are everything that you do is going to require learning and adjusting and modifying. And that's work. And you know, if you sit down and you say, Hey, I'm going to build out this business, and then you, you get out into the marketplace and you think you're rolling out this wonderful idea. It's sexy, and it's exciting. And everybody goes, huh. I don't really get it. You know, then you're, you're you're starting a new you're figuring out how do you communicate it in a different way? And I think that's a, that happens a lot. You know, we see that with people who will say, Well, I just want to skip the brand awareness. I just want to get the results. David Ralph 13:42 Why Why? Why would they say that? Let's let's delve into that. Because Surely, brand awareness is the absolute foundation that everything is built on is that understanding that customers will remember you and even if they don't buy at that time you stick in their mind, you know, we all remember you know, I'm loving it McDonald's now I bloody hate McDonald's. I think it's disgusting food. But I still remember the little tune in my head. And although that is what brand awareness really is, you shouldn't skip back should you Steve Jobs 14:16 never and you know, and I think the reason is, is that they don't want to go back in and champion to their box at Hey, you know what it might be a little while before we really see these efforts pay off that it might take a little bit for us to really get exposure in the marketplace, it might be a while where we just sort of pound this, you know, these storeys into the minds of our consumer base or client base. And I think they don't want to have that discussion. They don't want to, you know, really paint the picture of what it actually what actually goes into building a strong brand and it absolutely is brand awareness and it is being able to, you know, remember the catchy tune from the channels. And that takes work and that takes time. But you know, I think that we've been sold on This notion of well, it's, you know, just get the lead and get the sale and, and make it happen immediately because we only have a short period of time before we can get this thing rolling. And it's like, you know, it doesn't tend to work that way. And if you're gonna, you know, you're either going to earn it through brand awareness that you're going to pay for, or you're going to earn it through trying to skip the process and paying through the nose. Because you don't have brand awareness. Well, David Ralph 15:27 yeah, let's just talk about that. Because I've got listeners out there won't grasp what you just said. But effectively, by skipping brand awareness and building stuff, you're effectively leaving 98% of your money on the table. Customers are going to come across No matter how much marketing you do, they're going to land on your website and they're just going to bounce off. Now we can talk about having funnels, we can talk about having retargeting, we can have all the sexy marketing stuff around behind the scenes, but still be memorable and making somebody smile and feel inspired is the key to making a success, isn't it? Steve Jobs 16:09 Exactly. That's exactly what it is. And you know that the thought behind it in terms of you know, hey, making it memorable making people will connect with you making somebody smile. Of course, that's going to be the sauce, right, the secret sauce to success, but we have this, I think we tend to fall into this thought process that, you know, I, my product is so great. My service is so amazing. And again, you know, there's something wrong with that. But the truth is, is if the customer doesn't get it, then the customer doesn't get it. And we are in a very crowded space, right? We're in a very crowded space every every market is crowded, right? And it's not like there's just as you know, perhaps every once in a while there's a really novel idea and a novel product that is so unusual that it Sort of captures your attention. But that is almost never normally it requires that you're, you're putting that messaging out there, you're connecting with the customer, you're doing it again. And again and again. Because the customers thinking, well, you are just very similar my eyes to everybody else's out there. And so I always liken it to, you know, in the health and wellness space, you know, a lot of times we work with people in the health and wellness space. And you know, they'll say, but our product is organic. You know, our product is fair trade. Well, those are wonderful, fair trade and organic is lovely, and important. But there are 50, organic and fair trade products, you know, on the market and the customers looking at us saying I don't know which one's different. The brand, the brand awareness is the thing that gets the customer to go, Oh, no, I like this brand. Yes, it's organic. It's fair trade, and I'm so happy for those attributes, but what I really have about is how this brand makes me feel how my identity is wrapped into this brand, how this brand is a reflection of me. And that takes time it takes earning it. And it takes repetition. And it takes, you know, some business for you to actually break through the noise so that when somebody is looking at 50 products that seemed awfully similar. They remember you. Yeah. And your brand. David Ralph 18:24 Yeah, I also, I'm going to play some words now. And we're going to delve back into this because it's key. But here's Oprah. Oprah Winfrey 18:30 The way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this stuff. What is the next right move? And then from that space, make the next right move and the next right move and not to be overwhelmed by it because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment. You know, you're not defined by what somebody says is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction. David Ralph 19:02 Now if we take those words and we we reflect on the fact that she says Just be quiet and think most people will come to me with a snappy Logan logo or a slogan and say that's my business. And I say to them fats, not chia business bad. It's just a slogan, that's a business card. And I say, what is the promise? What is the promise that you are delivering? What is the thing that somebody can't get anywhere else? And how do you emphasise that through every part of your material? Now if we I'm going to do a quiz? I'm going to do a quiz with you. Okay, so I'm going to give you some slogans. Okay, being being Mrs. Branding expert out there and see how you do with this. Okay, so who said because you're worth it Unknown Speaker 19:57 I don't know actually. David Ralph 19:58 Move. Yeah. Hair hair product. Right? Okay. Okay, and if you could move slightly closer to the microphone you've just gone slightly, slightly dipped. Okay. Oh, sorry. What about think different? Apple? Apple? Brilliant. Okay, what about melts in your mouth? Not in your hands. Unknown Speaker 20:17 Lars? David Ralph 20:19 Mas OM m&ms. Yeah, somebody? Yeah. Okay, what about finger licking? Good. Steve Jobs 20:28 Good KFC, David Ralph 20:29 KFC. So all of those not only do they have something that's memorable, but they have something that is right for the customer. It's it's finger licking good. You're going to enjoy it so much but you you've got to get every single part of your your fingers you don't want to just leave it in the box, you know, and L'Oreal because you're worth it. Yeah, you're going to use the shampoo and you're going to feel great. Those words are worth billions aren't by because it just those four words you translate what the Bible Business is offering what your promises. I sound like I know what I'm talking about, don't I? Steve Jobs 21:07 really do. David Ralph 21:10 Just for that moment I hold real well there. Okay. So, so when somebody starts, they're businessmen and they come to you, do you how do you start it? What's a good way for a newbie? Is it better to grow the business and then start thinking about actually, their, their key proposition that they can develop into? Or is it a case of finding that first and then building the business around it? Steve Jobs 21:36 No, I think it's really it's exactly what you said it's finding it first and then building it around it. You know, I think that that that notion of exactly you know, finger looking good, I mean, great example, or Apple, I'm a huge Apple fan. But you know, that notion that, hey, if I if you want to connect with somebody in a way that is actually going to move the needle for your business, then you've got a start in the fundamental And you've got to figure out what is it from the very beginning stages that are going to make you feel very human in your approach and very connected and relevant. And so you have to really start from the ground up. And you've got to really challenge that. And I think, you know, the, the quote that you've said from Oprah is exactly it. You've got to get still, you've got to, you've got to think about what am I trying to accomplish here? What am I? What am I? What do I want to be known for? What is going to make me resonate with my audience in a way that feels like I get them? And it's also, you know, it's not only that piece, but it's also really understanding your customer. You know, so often I see brands that maybe they have already a great slogan, maybe they already have a great promise, but it's more that they they have a miss on the customer. You know, they think, Oh, this is going to resonate with this person. And this person, you know, we worked with a company at one point, that, you know, they were convinced that their product was You know, completely connected to bodybuilders, you know, and male bodybuilders and what they found out through a lot of sort of pain was that actually, it was a female that likes to have a tasty, you know, energy bar when she was going for a hike. Yeah, she was active, but she wasn't in there, you know, she wasn't in there just, you know, going crazy in the gym, that wasn't their target audience. And I think what happens is that we get this notion of, Okay, this is where it is, this is how it's going to resonate. This is the customer that I'm going to connect with. And what ends up ultimately happening is that your customer can be very, very, very different than you think they are. And that's the piece that you work at, right. That's the piece that you're constantly fine tuning because as you're doing more with your messaging, as you're doing more with your branding, you're learning a lot more about your customer and who that customer truly is and what really moves the needle and what is really going to make your brand storey Now for them David Ralph 24:01 is I realised through the process of running my business for the last six years, there was a point when I thought people wanted the money, Show me the money. And they were, they were desperate for that. And through the process, I realised that people actually don't want the money. They want the freedom, they want the stress free. And now let's see everyone that I talked to, who actually come through my coaching programmes, but they always say to me, David, if I can just pay my bills, that would be a great way, that would be a great way if I could pay my bills and have four days off each week, even better, and they're willing to do the work, you know, because they sign up and they start learning the structure, but it's not the money. And I always thought it was because I thought if you get the money, you know, that's, that's happy days. But then I look back at myself and I realised that actually, I used to be into telephone numbers. I used to think Yeah, you know, each month had to be better financially. When the before, but now, I'm just happy to live a happy life. And I think once again, when the words are coming out of your mouth and you're living those words, your branding just kind of starts to take shape somehow it it becomes congruent with your personal beliefs. And that comes out for your company. Would you agree? Steve Jobs 25:21 I absolutely agree. Yeah, you know, this need for just basic, you know, that everybody has this need for an enjoyable life and enjoyment. It's, it's, I always think of it in terms of financial freedom isn't necessarily just, it isn't how much money you have in the bank. It's, can you do what you want to do when you want to do it? Yeah. And I think that's a you know, it's a huge piece of, you know, sort of the fulfilment and the more that you feel, it's like anything else, it's like the energy that you put out, right, but the more that you that you live, and you you Read that reality and you, you come from that place, the more your customers feel it. David Ralph 26:06 And, and the amazing thing is to emphasise what you said there is, when you can do what you want to do when you want to do it. More often than not, it's so cheap, you know, you don't actually need the money. You know, I'm taking my wife to Venice for four days. And it's a return flight, which is about $22 or something like that, you know, which is nothing. And because we can do it whenever we want, I just looked at the cheapest day to go out and the chief cheapest day to go return and you know, that's it. Now, if I was working in the time where I'm restricted by kids holidays, for example, because I don't know if they're like that in America, but over here, the company screw you over as soon as you have kids, by you know when the school holidays are and everything becomes three times as pricey after bat because of fat and because of having worked with restrictions literally that would have cost me 250 pounds might be free or hundred dollars you kno

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