Nov 11, 2019
Introducing James Mulvany Todays guest joining us on the Join Up Dots podcast is a man on a mission. To not only change the world of podcasting but also commercial radio. Coming from the UK, this is one of those classic stories as you will hear when a passion matches a need and success occurs in rather quickly compared to mist. He is the founder of Radio.co and Podcast.co, where he provides the infrastructure to broadcast your words to the world. However, this is very different from what you would be getting from a show like Join Up Dots. His software allows for multiple radio hosts scheduled around the world, going live at their regular times, building their own followings, just like you would get when you tune in your own radio and hear your favourite morning show. All from the back of the garden, or your bedroom if that suits better. How The Dots Joined Up For James As he says "I was quite a geeky, introverted kid and definitely not the most outgoing kid in the world. It was good for me going to university because that gave me a bit of a social life and got me out there in the real world. That was really useful from a personal perspective but also from a business perspective as well. There is only so much you can achieve, when you’re sat behind your computer. I’ve never had a job, I started very young about 16 and was interested in radio and being a presenter. I was also into making websites and was teaching myself that. I decided not to pursue a career in radio but in the process of doing a bit of work experience in radio I learnt how to setup online radio and set up a stream to the internet. At the time there were a few companies offering this service and it seemed like a way to make a few quid. So in 2004 I set up a website called Wavestreaming. I didn’t really know what I was doing so I got the help of a guy in Australia who helped me set up the servers and stuff. I went to university and had a nice income on the side, I think that first year we turned over about £18,000. I did Interactive Multimedia at Uni and spent a lot of that time working on the business. At this time we were still selling streaming services to radio stations. I graduated Uni and hired some staff and managed to grow the business to the point where we got a very big deal with AOL, this was about 2011. And the rest is history. So it seems like a life with no worries and dark nights of the soul, but was this actually the case? And where does he see the world of home broadcasting going in the future....more of the same, or something quite different? Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots, with the one and only James Mulvany Show Highlights During the show we discussed such weight subjects with James Mulvany such as: James shared his first dream of getting £1,000 into his bank account and when he achieved it how good it felt. We talk about the drawbacks of running a team and how it can frighten so many people from actually scaling their own business. Why fundamentally being an entrepreneur is solving problems for as many people as possible. And lastly................. Why its so important to make a difference to your customers by truly listening and talking to them as much as possible. How To Connect With James Mulvany Website Facebook Linkedin Instagram Return To The Top Of James Mulvany If you enjoyed this interview with James Mulvany why not check out other inspiring interviews like Clint Arthur, Lunden DeLeon and Jack Canfield Or of course you can check out thousands of podcast interviews in our archives here Interview Transcription For James Mulvany Interview David Ralph 0:01 Once upon a time, there was a guy with a dream a dream, which is Jobs himself online and have a kick ass life working when he wanted him where he wanted across the world. Little did he know that dream would lead him into a world of struggle, burnout and debt. Until he found the magic ingredient and knows drunk was became a thing of the past, of course, was bad person. And now My dream is to make things happen. BU Welcome to Join Up Dots. Intro 0:31 When we're young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here's your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph. Unknown Speaker 0:55 Yes. David Ralph 0:56 Good morning. Good morning to you and welcome to Join Up Dots. Thank you for giving You're is giving me a buddies and everything in between. Now today's guest joining us on the Join Up Dots podcast is a man on a mission to not only change the world of podcasting but also commercial radio. Coming from the UK This is one of those classic storeys that you hear when a passion matches a need and success, I suppose occurs in rather quickly come compared to most out there. He's the founder of radio CO and podcast CO, where he provides the infrastructure to broadcast his words to the world and for everybody out there. Now it's very different from what you will be getting from a show like Join Up Dots he software allows for multiple radio hosts or podcast is scheduled around the world going live at their regular times building their own followings, just like you would get when you tune into your own radio and hear your favourite Morning Show, all from the back of the garden or your bedroom about suits better. Now, as he says I was quite a geeky introverted kid, and definitely not the most outgoing kid in the world. It was good for me going to university Because that gave me a bit of a social life and got me out there in the real world was really useful from a personal perspective, but also from a business one as well. There's only so much you can achieve when you're sat behind your computer CKUKV listeners, I've never had a job. I started very young about 16 and was interested in radio and being a presenter, I was also into making websites and was teaching myself fat. I decided not to pursue a career in radio. But in the process of doing a bit of work experience in radio, I learned how to set up online radio and set up a stream to the internet. And at a time, there were a few companies offering this service and it seemed like a way to make a few quid Now roll on 2004 I set up a website called wage streaming. I didn't really know what I was doing. So I got the help of a guy in Australia who helped me set up the service and stuff and I went to university and had a nice income on the side. I think that first year, we turned over 18 grain, great part to start the show. So it seems like a life with no one Dark Nights of the soul. But was this actually the case? And where does he see the world of home broadcasting going in the future? More of the same or something quite different? Well, let's find out as we bring on to the show to start Join Up Dots with the one and only James Mulvany. James Mulvany 3:17 Morning, James, how are you sir? I'm, I'm brilliant. You know what an intro David, I can't believe the granularity you went to there. I feel like we actually don't need to record the podcast because you've just summarise everything I was gonna say anyway. David Ralph 3:30 Well, can I tell you why I do that? James? Should I tell you? I was on about Episode Five of Join Up Dots. And it was right in the early days and I realised that most people come with their keynote storey but I like yeah, time and time again. So I just bought like m&m. in that film. I'm going to share the storey before they get to it and then we can go in any direction we want. James Mulvany 3:54 That's a good idea, to be honest. I mean, I've got lots of I can elaborate on that storey as well. There's bits that you missed out there. So David Ralph 4:00 We can go anywhere we want. So Mr. James Mulvany, thank you so much for being here and Join Up Dots because I am a fan and I want to get straight into radio.co. First of all, because this is a platform that I have looked at numerous times, and just recently down heart FM in the United Kingdom, got rid of their breakfast show hosts and they sort of amazing sort of centralised one. And the Essex guy who has been the unplug the radio host for about 25 years, came round to the back of the garden, Join Up Dots, I sat with him for an afternoon. And to be honest, I spent most of the time trying to promote radio.co saying, Look at this, you can do this yourself. You can get all the ex hosts have been sacked by heart, create your own radio show. This is brilliant. He wasn't as excited as I was. Now. Do you find that you find that podcasters look at it and go wow, this is such an opportunity. James Mulvany 4:59 I think They are, there's obviously some crossover between podcasting and radio, a lot of radio stations will run a podcast, not every podcaster wants a radio station. And one thing I can tell you is, we have a huge chunk of customers at Radio co who are ex jocks or ex presenters or whatever you want to call them. And they've decided that they want to leave the industry and start their own business and run their own online radio station, which can sometimes be you know, super focused around a specific topic or it can be super focused on a specific genre of music. And you know, they have a great time. And the great thing about that the platform is entirely cloud based. So you don't have to have a fancy studio. And also you don't have to be located in the same place as your DJ, your other DJ. So you can have people come and broadcast on your station from anywhere in the world. And you know, do it from the comfort of their own home or some people have like a home studio like you do the back of the garden or in their bedroom or whatever. And it just, you know, it kind of encourages creativity and collaboration, I think. David Ralph 5:58 Now, I listened to Chris happens the Breakfast Show guy in the United Kingdom he stole James Mulvany 6:03 you from radio to to virgin did he did David Ralph 6:05 he did yeah I know he's and he stole me was is exactly the same show there's no difference it's just like he's old show has been moved across but he was doing it all from Portugal on a laptop and even though I the same thing I was thinking my god it people out there aren't grasping the fact that nowadays they don't have to go to an office they could set up a tree and build a business. We've never got them we've never got them Join Up Dots is a failure it me and Chris Evans haven't shown them a new way. That's excellent you James but at its core business is about creating the lifestyle with the businesses second place, James Mulvany 6:45 I think. Yeah, to begin with, you know, like back in the day when I first started out, it was me on my own. And, you know, I was the sales guy, the support guy that you know, software guy, I did everything I want many hats, a bit of jack of all trades, master of none. But what it did give me his ability to sort of understand each area. And, you know, when I started hiring staff, you know, he allowed me to, for example, talking to developers, I have a good understanding of how it all links together and, and how code works. Don't write any code anymore. But I think to begin with, and having that creativity and that freedom, and it was really like a lifestyle business back then, look, I think you mentioned in your introduction, I remember being in sixth form, start a website, I might go back then was like, Can I get my bank balance to 1000 pounds like this almost unachievable, you know, goal that was kind of and then I did it probably within the space of, I don't know, five, six months. And I remember hitting that goal and thinking this is amazing, you know, and, and as you said, I think first year 16 years old, we turned over about 18 grand, which were 16 old kids not bad. And but you know, obviously then as time progresses and things grow, you know, it becomes more of a you know, more of a commercial entity I guess, you know, the we've got about 30 of us on the team now. So, you know, things are a bit different now than then. But I kind of still always have a, you know, like kind of fond memory those early days when it was just me and I was kind of, you know, I had that sort of opportunity ahead of me thinking I can just do anything I can take over the world with this. And it really gave me a lot of excitement. Because, you know, I think as you said in the introduction, my original plan was to go into radio as a broadcaster as a DJ, and sort of did a little bit of that. And then I kind of thought, Well, you know, I'm going to go off to university and sort of I studied interactive multimedia, which is basically web design and stuff like that. And you know, that that would kind of gave me the building blocks to sort of start growing the business a bit more. David Ralph 8:45 The amount of radio hosts that I have spoken to over the last two or three years and but majority of them say it's so restrictive in radio, they spend most of these days doing maps and working out if I play a disagreement Song how long till the top of the hour and all that it's just like mass mass mass and I can't say anything. Now with Join Up Dots, I literally open my mouth and whatever comes out goes into people's ears. And I can't understand with the the growth and the explosion, why more people aren't going that way? Why do people still want to get a job when you can create your own job, James? James Mulvany 9:24 I think it's the security isn't it? And it's the fear of the unknown. If you're a DJ and you've got that talent, you've got that, you know, core communication built within you that you can kind of get people on your side, you can, you know, that can be translated to so many different areas of running a business, you know, if you're a good presenter, you can be a really good salesperson, you can be really good marketer, you know, you've got that ability to present a camera concepts and ideas, record videos, and I've really, especially in the early days, I really saw drew upon that, that talent, those skills, to launch the business and actually get kind of get one Over on the competition, because a lot of the competition were for focusing really on the technical aspects of everything, but actually, they weren't good at sales. They, they were too scared. And I still see this today, they're too scared to appear in front of a camera or too scared to actually go in front of a mic and actually start selling their products and speak to people. So I think, you know, as a creative person, if you're in broadcasting for your podcasting, you know, you can take those skills and you can easily turn it into a business because so much of being a business relies on being a good communicator, a good communicator. David Ralph 10:30 I agree with you totally. And what I really picked up on there is how so many people try to sell based around the technical aspects. Yeah, but majority of people don't give a monkey's about the technical aspect. They they just want to know the end product. It's the knowledge gap that you've got to cross it, sir. Yeah, we can show you how to live a life like this. We can show you how you sit in your underpants and create a business. We want to show you five. And these are the tools that get there. Now when I looked@radio.com. And obviously, we're going Talk about podcast co as well. I looked at that, and I thought to myself, this is so sexy, but I could create my own show. Once I finished, somebody else goes live. And we can broadcast to the world, we could get a load of podcasters, together, boarding. And then I looked at it and thought, No, actually, I just like doing my own thing. I don't want to be responsible for sort of other people. Is that a stumbling block as well? Do you see it where people look at and go, I love this, but actually, who's going to manage it? I don't. But the talent doesn't want to be the studio manager. James Mulvany 11:32 I mean, yeah, it's interesting. You mentioned this, and I think radio.co platform does make that process very straightforward. I've got to start off by saying the reality of managing people can sometimes be difficult. I ran a radio station here in Manchester called MCI live for two years. And unfortunately, we had to call it a day at the start of this year, mainly for commercial reasons. We were trying to pick up sponsorship. And we you know, we did, we did some small deals, but we ultimately we didn't get that big headline sponsor, but we had a lot of fun in running it and it was a good guinea pig for the business. And we had a studio which was really cool. It was actually based above a convenience store which is kind of like a hipster cool convenience store and with there we have this sort of mezzanine level we thought let's put a studio up there. So it was really good. But you know what managing day we had sort of lots of electronic music DJ presenters coming in and and organising that we probably had about 50 people at any one time. And obviously, the people came and went over the couple years, we ran it, but you know, coordinating 50 people was a big task we needed to have, you know, I had what, two three full time people working on that project. Just to kind of coordinate that. And also obviously handle things like the marketing Instagram, etc. But it was, you know, it was a big ask. David Ralph 12:50 And it was the time I used to run sales teams and insurance teams and at 10 to eight the phone rang. You realised it was somebody I can't get mean I've got flu, and baby, but the next day they were in and there was so much hassle about trying to cover cover this. What would be your response? If somebody says to you, James, do I create a company with loads of employees? Or do I just create something very, very small, but provides me with a lifestyle. I may not be a millionaire, but I earn 100 pounds more of and I need each month to pay all my bills, have lovely holidays, have pub lunches and all kinds of little luxuries. So I'm nice. What would you say? James Mulvany 13:36 I think it depends on the individual. You know, by nature, I'm very ambitious. I'm now you know, pretty successful. But to begin with, I was I was just sort of earning a good living and then it kind of went from making a good living to having staff and obviously then it gets to the point where, you know, you're making significant profit. I think that depends on what you want. You need to And also to begin with, when I was at university, I wasn't I didn't have any kind of ambition to have a company, which was turning over, you know, multiple million amounts. I wanted us to make a few quid on the side. But then obviously things change over time. And, you know, you kind of your business grows and then obviously you kind of get bit more hungry you think, well, let's, let's try and push ourselves further. So I think to start off with a lot of people, you know, who are perhaps working in a job, or they're just starting out, they just finished school or college, and they may be looking into going to sort of university or whatever, there's no harm and just running something as a lifestyle business. That's what I did for probably five or six years before things started really taking off. David Ralph 14:45 And when when did it take off to a point that you realise because no matter how we sort of frame it, there's a hassle running a business. They go serious? Yeah. When you get to that point when you actually think yourself, hang on, are we growing Fast Should I scale back? We all have those decisions in our heads where we think the flexibility that I did have when it was all fun and exciting, and we were coming in each day and everybody loved working with each other. It's lost a bit of that. Do you remember that? James Mulvany 15:14 Yeah, I mean, you know, you have just like any job, you have good days and bad days, you know, you'll have periods where you've got a But fundamentally, being an entrepreneur is about problem solving. Right? So, if I have, if I have, you know, stumbling things along the way, which Every business has, you know, your job as a, as a founder or entrepreneur is to find solutions to those problems. And yeah, of course, you have your ups and downs not every day you go in and you thinking, yeah, this is brilliant, but then there obviously there are highs or lows. It's just that's the kind of storey I think that's the journey going as an entrepreneur, but I think the more experience you get, you know, you you mentally more equipped to deal with the downfalls and the pitfalls and the problems along the way and they don't affect you as much you kind of take them on the chin a bit more to begin with, you know, I certainly found myself kind of quite erratic, you know, I had this big dear things really took off for us in about 2011 2012 struck a big deal with AOL who owned a product called outcast and that was the core sort of engine of our system. So things took off very quickly for us that was had a business good wave stream then I knew the deal wasn't going to be there forever and I knew that it will might last five years or so. So but but it but it went as quickly as it came it went so I think it lasted about two and a half years that contract and you know, it was very it was good for us. We made a lot of money as a business. But then when it when it went away, you know, that really hit me hard for a year I was sort of, you know, in my own head, struggling and thinking God What am I going to do? I've got all these staff and everything's going to come crashing down around me and everything I've worked for him you know, and kind of looking at all these extremes in my own head but actually reality was it did that didn't happen, you know, and but it what it did do is forced me to kind of get my head together and figure out what what's next? How can we do better? And how can we kind of go one over on this? David Ralph 17:05 And who supported you at that time when mentally but demons are in your head thinking, yeah, God, who was the one that you went to James Mulvany 17:12 need to speak to? You know, you speak to your friends, your family, and half the time, they're just like, Yeah, he's just whinging about this again. But, but then I think, you know, actually, ultimately, you've got to help yourself, you know, no one's going to give you a magic solution to a problem. And especially in business, when you're when you've got the reins, you know, it's down to you to actually figure out right, am I going to keep going on this path? Are we going to choose a new direction to go in and how we going to solve this problem? David Ralph 17:38 Let's play some words and then come back to James he is Oprah. Oprah Winfrey 17:42 The way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this stuff. What is the next right move? And then from that space, make the next right move and the next right move? Not to be overwhelmed by it because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you're not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you, because failure is just there to point you in a different direction. David Ralph 18:13 Now I created Join Up Dots back in 2004, based out 2014, based around the words that Steve Jobs will say later on, and it's been a mantra of mine, but I didn't really understand it until recently. And just recently, James or about couple years ago, I went through a really bad sort of health phase, big wobble, everything went skew with and tix up, as we say over here, and I really struggle. Now through that speech by Oprah and fruit, a speech from Steve Jobs and the fact that I'm still talking in the best microphone now. I've got a totally different mindset. I now think to myself, if it goes bad, I will deal with it. If it goes bad in the future, I will deal with it. If it goes I just say That everything that's thrown at me now. It just means me being quiet, looking at it and thinking, How do I get past this? And the fact that I'm now 50 years old or coming up 50 years old? And that's the time James, you say, No, I don't believe it. I don't believe it. But I'm coming up 50 years old, and I have made a billion decisions, right decisions, wrong decisions. I have led me to this point. I totally think that what's going to stop those decisions still occurring going forward, you know, until I get run over or die. Literally, I don't think that anything can go wrong. I just think that if it does go wrong, I deal with it what you think? James Mulvany 19:38 I think you're right. And I think one of the things I've learned about myself as well as you can, you can kind of go through periods where you become a bit complacent, right? If you don't make any changes, everything's going sweet. And, you know, you just sort of kind of get used to doing it and then almost go into a bit routine, which I think is fine. And you can do that for to a certain extent. Because ultimately, you know, when you're launching a business And, as I said, I've launched today, probably something like six different companies over the years, couple of them have worked out, couple of them haven't, some of them have sold on various different things. But you know, you go through each time you launch your business, you go for that intense period of hard work hard graft, not knowing if it's actually going to pay off. And, you know, sometimes it's, you know, it's really got to be, you've got to throw your life into it for a year or so. But, you know, then, you know, once you've, you've sort of started reaching a certain level of success, you can actually take a step back and enjoy it. And I don't think there's anything wrong in doing that, you know, have a couple of years, we think, actually, you know, we've got systems in place to deal with most of the stuff now, you know, my job as a founder, you know, can kind of just be to keep everything ticking over for a couple of years. Until then you decide, either start another business or, you know, in my case, sometimes it's got a right what can we do next? We got to start shaking things up now. And it's interesting because, you know, just launched podcast co so that's been, you know, radios very successful now. And, you know, we're still pushing boundaries and still innovating. But it has been in terms of development wise, what we've been doing is quite been quite quiet for the last year because it is quite a mature platform now. But now I'm starting to think, right, we've had a kind of year off radio.co, almost not not a literally a year off, but you see what I mean? In terms of mean, I'm sort of putting my mindset into it. But now I'm thinking right, I need to go back in and focus on it again, for probably like a six month period and go kind of a bit more intense on it. Because, you know, we've, we've grown the team, so we could work on two businesses, which is important, I think, you know, it's important to have, that you don't don't lose momentum in your existing business if you start a new one. But then, ultimately, is there's only so much bandwidth a thing as an entrepreneur that you've got. So, you know, sometimes you need to give it your own one projects and sort of scale that what you're thinking about on another project for a period of time, but then, you know, readjust that balance at some point. David Ralph 21:58 I now say to people Van Bashir, I've been retired. And I mean that I've been doing bad for 58. He's not bad at all. But I've been doing stuff and I've been, you know, working on things. But it hasn't been the room that I had a couple of years ago where it was all I have to get this going, I have to get this but some Oh, this is Yeah, this year has been very much about myself, looking at what I want, and I can now see what I want. And it's not what I wanted at the beginning. Have you seen that with yourself that the original dream actually was just just starting dream is not the real dream? James Mulvany 22:37 Yeah, I think things change over time. Of course they do. And, you know, and also, I think, for me, I found, you know, what was caught I'll bring this up, bring this up in a sermon, actually. But, you know, I think you, you kind of get you're aware of your abilities and you know, once you've a certain level of achievement that you kind of, you know, I don't think you should ever sort of stop you keep need to keep learning need to keep that hunger for more, I think but you can kind of think he actually, you know what, I kind of know what I'm doing a bit now. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, when I, when I was at university, I really didn't know what I was doing. I was just winging it. And I kind of was just trying all these different ideas. And, you know, some things worked and some things didn't. But you know, nowadays, I kind of got a bit of a better understanding of what my capabilities are where my sort of expertise lies, which I think is, you know, a good thing. But then I'm say, I'm not I'm not suggesting you should ever think, right, I'm done. Now, you know, because I think there's always room to move forward. There's always room to learn new skills of find out about new things. David Ralph 23:38 But isn't that key to growing a business where probably 90% of the effort is learning about what you don't know? Yeah, completely self developing and upscaling and I come back from the my wife says, you know, what you've been doing? Have you been recording podcasts? I say, No, no, I haven't been doing it. I've just been reading stuff and looking at stopping and you have to be careful and this is a question You're actually, when you realise that there are knowledge gap